flac format

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flac format

Rodolfo Medina
Hi to all ffmpeg users.

In order to backup store my audio CDs, I collect them into wav files using
icedax, because I read that wav format is lossless.  Now, I've just read that
also flac format would be, with the advantage of occupying much less memory
space than wav.  As far as you listers know, is that true?  If so, what should
the magic formula be to losslessly convert wav to flac and viceversa...?
Thanks in advance for any help...

Regards,

Rodolfo

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Re: flac format

Cley Faye
2017-09-01 10:55 GMT+02:00 Rodolfo Medina <[hidden email]>:

> Hi to all ffmpeg users.
>
> In order to backup store my audio CDs, I collect them into wav files using
> icedax, because I read that wav format is lossless.  Now, I've just read
> that
> also flac format would be, with the advantage of occupying much less memory
> space than wav.  As far as you listers know, is that true?  If so, what
> should
> the magic formula be to losslessly convert wav to flac and viceversa...?


​Yes, FLAC is lossless. Using ffmpeg to convert from wav to flac is pretty
straightforward:

$ ffmpeg -i input.wav output.flac

can't be much simpler than that :)
Of course you can specify a lot of flags for encoding, but by default it
will try to match the input, which is probably what you want.
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Re: flac format

Rodolfo Medina
Cley Faye <[hidden email]> writes:

> 2017-09-01 10:55 GMT+02:00 Rodolfo Medina <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi to all ffmpeg users.
>>
>> In order to backup store my audio CDs, I collect them into wav files using
>> icedax, because I read that wav format is lossless.  Now, I've just read
>> that
>> also flac format would be, with the advantage of occupying much less memory
>> space than wav.  As far as you listers know, is that true?  If so, what
>> should
>> the magic formula be to losslessly convert wav to flac and viceversa...?
>
>
> ​Yes, FLAC is lossless. Using ffmpeg to convert from wav to flac is pretty
> straightforward:
>
> $ ffmpeg -i input.wav output.flac
>
> can't be much simpler than that :)
> Of course you can specify a lot of flags for encoding, but by default it
> will try to match the input, which is probably what you want.


Thanks.  Also the viceversa is as much simpler?  And, please, what about wma
format?  Is it also lossless?  I saw that the conversion wav > wma and wma >
wav is simple as well...

Thanks,

Rodolfo

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Re: flac format

Cley Faye
>
> Thanks.  Also the viceversa is as much simpler?


​For audio conversion with no change to layouts etc. it is usually that
simple (but don't trust this blindly; I'm sure one can find subtle issues
if one look hard enough)​



>   And, please, what about wma
> ​ ​
> format?  Is it also lossless?

I saw that the conversion wav > wma and wma >
> ​ ​
> wav is simple as well...
>

​WMA, aside from being proprietary, have multiple variations. There is a
lossless WMA format, but there's no guarantee it will work with anything.
For example, my local installation of ffmpeg can decode WMA Lossless, but
not encode it:

 D.A..S wmalossless          Windows Media Audio Lossless

 D.A.L. wmapro               Windows Media Audio 9 Professional

 DEA.L. wmav1                Windows Media Audio 1

 DEA.L. wmav2                Windows Media Audio 2

 D.A.L. wmavoice             Windows Media Audio Voice

​​
​If your local installation happens to be able to use it, you'll have to
specify on the command line that you want to use 'wmalossless'​ in addition
to the file name. Otherwise it might use another (lossy) version.
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P.Y
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Re: flac format

P.Y
In reply to this post by Rodolfo Medina


Paul Yurt // Media Technologist // 310-439-8009  

On Sep 1, 2017, at 4:55 AM, Rodolfo Medina <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi to all ffmpeg users.

In order to backup store my audio CDs, I collect them into wav files using
icedax, because I read that wav format is lossless.  Now, I've just read that
also flac format would be, with the advantage of occupying much less memory
space than wav.  As far as you listers know, is that true?  If so, what should
the magic formula be to losslessly convert wav to flac and viceversa...?

Rodolfo,
CD audio is encoded 16 bit WAV. If you do a clean read of the CD data to computer files, you will have very close to a copy of the original audio WAV file (plus error corrections).

If you convert the WAV to an other format you will have an approximation of the original data with the limitations of the codec of choice. FLAC claims to be lossless and offering about 50% storage savings.

Storage is inexpensive why change the format and lose the original?


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Re: flac format

drwho
On 2017-09-01 08:54 AM, PaulYurt wrote:
> Rodolfo,
> CD audio is encoded 16 bit WAV. If you do a clean read of the CD data to computer files, you will have very close to a copy of the original audio WAV file (plus error corrections).
I recommend CD paranoia <https://xiph.org/paranoia/> for the highest
quality CD ripping. Our $2000 CD Player
<https://nadelectronics.com/en_CA/product/m50-2-digital-music-player/>
uses CD paranoia.
>
> If you convert the WAV to an other format you will have an approximation of the original data with the limitations of the codec of choice. FLAC claims to be lossless and offering about 50% storage savings.
FLAC is lossless.

Jon
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Re: flac format

Cley Faye
In reply to this post by P.Y
>
> If you convert the WAV to an other format you will have an approximation
> of the original data with the limitations of the codec of choice. FLAC
> claims to be lossless and offering about 50% storage savings.
>
> Storage is inexpensive why change the format and lose the original?


For the record, FLAC is lossless: going wav -> flac -> wav recreate the
exact same file, byte by byte.

I can see a few cases where smaller size for the same data is better: it
use less storage (obviously), transfer faster over internet/over other
networks, less memory bandwidth with hardware decoder (granted FLAC
hardware decoder are not that common). I see no advantage, when possible,
to not compress stuff, especially when the process is very fast in both
directions. Processing power is inexpensive too :)
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Re: flac format

P.Y


> On Sep 1, 2017, at 9:21 AM, Cley Faye <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

>
> If you convert the WAV to an other format you will have an approximation
> of the original data with the limitations of the codec of choice. FLAC
> claims to be lossless and offering about 50% storage savings.
>
> Storage is inexpensive why change the format and lose the original?


For the record, FLAC is lossless: going wav -> flac -> wav recreate the
exact same file, byte by byte.

I can see a few cases where smaller size for the same data is better: it
use less storage (obviously), transfer faster over internet/over other
networks, less memory bandwidth with hardware decoder (granted FLAC
hardware decoder are not that common). I see no advantage, when possible,
to not compress stuff, especially when the process is very fast in both
directions. Processing power is inexpensive too :)

There is something to say for playing an original file when it's almost universally playable by hardware at the binary level :)
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Re: flac format

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
In reply to this post by Cley Faye
Hi!

Am 01.09.2017 um 15:21 schrieb Cley Faye <[hidden email]>:

>>
>> If you convert the WAV to an other format you will have an approximation
>> of the original data with the limitations of the codec of choice.


This is (generally) correct.


>> FLAC claims to be lossless and offering about 50% storage savings.

No.
To the best of our knowledge, flac is lossless.
(There may even be proof, I don't know.)

>> Storage is inexpensive why change the format and lose the original?
>
> For the record, FLAC is lossless: going wav -> flac -> wav recreate the
> exact same file, byte by byte.

No.
Going wav -> flac -> wav, you can get the exact same audio information.
There are two traps though: The second wav file may not contain the same meta information as the first file (this depends on the used software and is something you can't necessarily control) and using FFmpeg you may have to choose the right encoder for the second conversion: .wav defaults to 16 bit pcm (here), if your original file was 24 bit or float, you have to specify the relevant encoder to get the exact audio information.

Carl Eugen
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