coding video for some old Sony

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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Ulf Zibis

Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
> Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 13:39 Uhr schrieb Ulf Zibis <[hidden email]>:
>> In German Wikipedia e. g. there are no equivalents.
> That's not true.
I mean, that there is no language site linked on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

-Ulf

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Re: top posting

Moritz Barsnick
In reply to this post by Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 14:04:34 +0200, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
> Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Moritz Barsnick <[hidden email]>:
> > *We* should also understand that, AFAIK, Gmail web GUI users have no
> > clue that they're doing that, as it hides the quote from them. (So I
> > have often heard.)
>
> I use Gmail web GUI...

Sorry, I tend to over-generalize. ;-)

(But: Those who don't have a clue what we mean when hinting at their
quoting style often have gmail addresses, and no other obvious
User-Agent header. But I don't have numbers on this.)

Moritz
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Re: top posting

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Moritz Barsnick

Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Moritz Barsnick:
> *We* should also understand that, AFAIK, Gmail web GUI users have no
> clue that they're doing that, as it hides the quote from them. (So I
> have often heard.)

Yes, you do need not to *understand* why people are irritated and
interpret it wrong, as I did long time, just *note* it.

-Ulf

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Re: top posting

Carlos E. R.
In reply to this post by Moritz Barsnick
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On Tuesday, 2019-08-13 at 14:03 +0200, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 13:39:37 +0200, Ulf Zibis wrote:
>> So please give a little more help on that term.
>
> While I agree, it is easy to google.
>
> *We* should also understand that, AFAIK, Gmail web GUI users have no
> clue that they're doing that, as it hides the quote from them. (So I
> have often heard.)

I don't know about the web, but it is certainly true on the Android gmail
app. The quoted material is hidden beneath three dots. Tapping on them
they can be expanded or deleted entirely. There may be other mail clients
that also hide them from view.

>
>> irritation often. In German Wikipedia e. g. there are no equivalents.
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU

On several languages, the article is named "Top-posting". Example:

<https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>

But what it says is not all correct. Also, neither Spanish or German
articles link to the English article, and the English article does not
have links to any other language, which is perhaps why Ulf Zibis did not
find the German article.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Re: top posting

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
In reply to this post by Moritz Barsnick
Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:12 Uhr schrieb Moritz Barsnick <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 14:04:34 +0200, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
> > Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb Moritz Barsnick <[hidden email]>:
> > > *We* should also understand that, AFAIK, Gmail web GUI users have no
> > > clue that they're doing that, as it hides the quote from them. (So I
> > > have often heard.)
> >
> > I use Gmail web GUI...
>
> Sorry, I tend to over-generalize. ;-)
>
> (But: Those who don't have a clue what we mean when hinting at their
> quoting style often have gmail addresses, and no other obvious
> User-Agent header. But I don't have numbers on this.)

If you don't care about top-posting, it is easy to do it wrong with
the Gmail web gui. Once you typed "top-posting" into the search
bar of your mail browser, you get both an English and (at least
with a German default) a local language explanation for what it
is. Then it cannot be so difficult to press the only symbol in
Gmail's reply field.

There is also https://ffmpeg.org/mailing-list-faq.html linked from
https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user

Carl Eugen
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Re: top posting

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
In reply to this post by Carlos E. R.
Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:21 Uhr schrieb Carlos E. R.
<[hidden email]>:

> <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>
>
> But what it says is not all correct. Also, neither Spanish or German
> articles link to the English article, and the English article does not
> have links to any other language, which is perhaps why Ulf Zibis did not
> find the German article.

I (still) believe it is impossible not to find it assuming you
searched for an explanation.
(Assuming a German browser default)

Carl Eugen
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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
In reply to this post by Ulf Zibis
Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:11 Uhr schrieb Ulf Zibis <[hidden email]>:
>
>
> Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
> > Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 13:39 Uhr schrieb Ulf Zibis <[hidden email]>:
> >> In German Wikipedia e. g. there are no equivalents.
> > That's not true.
> I mean, that there is no language site linked on
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

How did you find out about this site?

Carl Eugen
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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Reindl Harald
In reply to this post by Ulf Zibis


Am 13.08.19 um 13:39 schrieb Ulf Zibis:

>
> Am 13.08.19 um 12:00 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
>> Please find out what top-posting means and avoid it here.
> As I too needed some time to understand, what you mean by this, here is
> the explanation:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
>
> My first understanding was: "Do not post a new question on top of an
> existing post/therad"

nonsense

> So please give a little more help on that term. Not all people here are
> native speakers and searching this term on non-english web results in
> irritation often. In German Wikipedia e. g. there are no equivalents.
how many time do *you* need?

top-posting and thread-hijacking have nothing in common except that you
can combine them
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Re: top posting

Carlos E. R.
In reply to this post by Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
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On Tuesday, 2019-08-13 at 14:23 +0200, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:

> Am Di., 13. Aug. 2019 um 14:21 Uhr schrieb Carlos E. R. <>:
>
>> <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>
>>
>> But what it says is not all correct. Also, neither Spanish or German
>> articles link to the English article, and the English article does not
>> have links to any other language, which is perhaps why Ulf Zibis did not
>> find the German article.
>
> I (still) believe it is impossible not to find it assuming you
> searched for an explanation.
> (Assuming a German browser default)

I always click on the link to other language on the article. I basically
never search again in the other language, becausue I assume that if the
link does not exist, the article does not exist. I see now this is not
always the case, but it is what I do.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Re: top posting

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Carl Eugen Hoyos-2

Am 13.08.19 um 14:23 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
> I (still) believe it is impossible not to find it assuming you
> searched for an explanation.
> (Assuming a German browser default)
But it is very likely, that people interpret it as "Do not post a new
question *on top* of an existing post/thread", and see no requirement
for further research, as this understanding is a very common subject in
mailing lists.

-Ulf


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Re: top posting

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Carl Eugen Hoyos-2

Am 13.08.19 um 14:24 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
>> I mean, that there is no language site linked on
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
> How did you find out about this site?

I exceptionally directly searched in the english Wikipedia after many
admonitions from you, not doing the right thing.

I let it up to you, if you like to repeat them endless without reaction. ;-)

-Ulf


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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Reindl Harald

Am 13.08.19 um 14:27 schrieb Reindl Harald:
>
> nonsense

Yeah, good to know, that we have even one who posts sense!

-Ulf

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Re: top posting

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Moritz Barsnick

Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Moritz Barsnick:
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU
And in fact it describes the opposite of what you want:

"Das Akronym <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akronym> steht für *Text
oben, Fullquote <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullquote> unten*, bzw.
*Text Over, Fullquote Under*: Die E-Mail
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail> beginnt mit der Antwort
/(Top-Posting)/, darunter folgt im Text eine /vollständige/ Kopie der
zitierten E-Mail einschließlich Kopfdaten
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopfdaten> und Signatur
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature>."

-Ulf

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Re: top posting

Marc Roos
 
Is there not a separate mailing list for discussing this? ;)


-----Original Message-----
From: Ulf Zibis [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: dinsdag 13 augustus 2019 14:58
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-user] top posting


Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Moritz Barsnick:
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU
And in fact it describes the opposite of what you want:

"Das Akronym
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akronym> steht für *Text oben, Fullquote
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullquote> unten*, bzw.
*Text Over, Fullquote Under*: Die E-Mail
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail> beginnt mit der Antwort /(Top-Posting)/, darunter folgt im Text eine /vollständige/ Kopie der zitierten E-Mail einschließlich Kopfdaten <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopfdaten>
und Signatur <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature>."

-Ulf

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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Reindl Harald
In reply to this post by Ulf Zibis


Am 13.08.19 um 14:54 schrieb Ulf Zibis:
> Am 13.08.19 um 14:27 schrieb Reindl Harald:
>>
>> nonsense
>
> Yeah, good to know, that we have even one who posts sense!

Yeah, good to know, that we have even one who quotes in a way to supress
context otherwise

the stunt interpret "In top-posting style the original message is
included verbatim, with the reply above it" as " My first understanding
was: "Do not post a new question on top of an existing post/therad" is
hilarious

--------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

My first understanding was: "Do not post a new question on top of an
existing post/therad"
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Re: top posting – was: coding video for some old Sony

Carlos E. R.
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On Tuesday, 2019-08-13 at 15:31 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 13.08.19 um 14:54 schrieb Ulf Zibis:
>> Am 13.08.19 um 14:27 schrieb Reindl Harald:
>>>
>>> nonsense
>>
>> Yeah, good to know, that we have even one who posts sense!
>
> Yeah, good to know, that we have even one who quotes in a way to supress
> context otherwise
>
> the stunt interpret "In top-posting style the original message is
> included verbatim, with the reply above it" as " My first understanding
> was: "Do not post a new question on top of an existing post/therad" is
> hilarious

To people that already know what the term means. Not to people that see it
for the first time and try to guess what it means and can guess wrong.

- --
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Re: top posting

Ulf Zibis
In reply to this post by Carl Eugen Hoyos-2

Am 13.08.19 um 14:22 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
> If you don't care about top-posting, it is easy to do it wrong with
> the Gmail web gui. Once you typed "top-posting" into the search
> bar of your mail browser, you get both an English and (at least
> with a German default) a local language explanation for what it
> is. Then it cannot be so difficult to press the only symbol in
> Gmail's reply field.

Who uses web gui? In my experience kids and girls, but not "power
users". ;-) Please don't feel offended, but it is at least for me
unlikely to benefit from this and even more I evade this "Big-brother-is
watching-you"-service, alias Google.

-Ulf

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Watermarking vs. Lossy compression (Was: coding video for some old Sony)

Henning Thielemann
In reply to this post by Moritz Barsnick

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 14:03:31 +0200, Ulf Zibis wrote:
>> I can imagine, that there is a chance to alienate the watermark by
>> rescaling the video or other filtering.
>
> "Real" watermarking should be resistent to this, upto the point that
> you need to "ruin" the video (or audio, for that matter) to get rid of
> it.

Off topic: I always wondered how "real watermarking" is able to survive
even lossy compression, but is still invisible. Wouldn't this mean that
the lossy compression is not good enough? A compressor should be able to
eliminate the invisible artifacts for more compression gain, shouldn't it?
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Re: top posting

Reindl Harald
In reply to this post by Ulf Zibis


Am 13.08.19 um 15:50 schrieb Ulf Zibis:

>
> Am 13.08.19 um 14:22 schrieb Carl Eugen Hoyos:
>> If you don't care about top-posting, it is easy to do it wrong with
>> the Gmail web gui. Once you typed "top-posting" into the search
>> bar of your mail browser, you get both an English and (at least
>> with a German default) a local language explanation for what it
>> is. Then it cannot be so difficult to press the only symbol in
>> Gmail's reply field.
>
> Who uses web gui? In my experience kids and girls, but not "power
> users". ;-) Please don't feel offended, but it is at least for me
> unlikely to benefit from this and even more I evade this "Big-brother-is
> watching-you"-service, alias Google.

luckily you are the only posting here, aren't you?
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Re: top posting

Reindl Harald
In reply to this post by Ulf Zibis


Am 13.08.19 um 14:57 schrieb Ulf Zibis:

>
> Am 13.08.19 um 14:03 schrieb Moritz Barsnick:
>>
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU
> And in fact it describes the opposite of what you want:
>
> "Das Akronym <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akronym> steht für *Text
> oben, Fullquote <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullquote> unten*, bzw.
> *Text Over, Fullquote Under*: Die E-Mail
> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail> beginnt mit der Antwort
> /(Top-Posting)/, darunter folgt im Text eine /vollständige/ Kopie der
> zitierten E-Mail einschließlich Kopfdaten
> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopfdaten> und Signatur
> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature>."

and?

it explains was top-posting is and when one tells you not to do
soemthing you need to understand what it is to avoid it!
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1234