ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

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ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Peter B.
Hi :)

For testing purposes, I tried to encode a ProRes file using ffmpeg
(current git HEAD).
I have 2 questions about the FFmpeg docs about ProRes [1]:


1) Docs mention 2 encoder names, but only "prores" works:
========================================

When I looked at the documentation [1], there are 2 encoders mentioned:
  * prores-aw
  * prores-ks

It says to use "-vcodec" to choose which one (btw: I also tried "-c:v"):
I get: "Unknown encoder" for both.
(Commandline and console output at the end)

Using "-c:v prores" works, however.
I've also checked "./configure --help | grep -i prores" but didn't find
any compile switch to enable/disable them.


2) Docs say "profile/quantmat" is "integer", but only list strings:
========================================

[quote]
profile integer
    Select the ProRes profile to encode

    ‘proxy’
    ‘lt’
    ‘standard’
    ‘hq’
    ‘4444’
    ‘4444xq’

quant_mat integer
    Select quantization matrix.

    ‘auto’
    ‘default’
    ‘proxy’
    ‘lt’
    ‘standard’
    ‘hq’
[/quote]


Am I using it incorrectly, or is the documentation confusing?

Thank you very much in advance,
Peter


== References:
[1] https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-all.html#ProRes




Commandline and complete, uncut console output:
(OS: Xubuntu 16.04.3 64bit)


--------------------------------------------
$ ffmpeg-git -i gopro.mp4 -an -vcodec prores-aw protest.mov
--------------------------------------------

ffmpeg version N-90260-g840f6eb Copyright (c) 2000-2018 the FFmpeg
developers
  built with gcc 5.4.0 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.5) 20160609
  configuration: --prefix=/usr/local --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree
--enable-version3 --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-avfilter
--enable-pthreads --enable-bzlib --enable-zlib --enable-decoder=png
--enable-encoder=png --samples=../fate-suite --enable-libfreetype
--enable-libopenjpeg --disable-decoder=jpeg2000 --enable-libvpx
--enable-libvorbis --enable-libx264
  libavutil      56.  8.100 / 56.  8.100
  libavcodec     58. 13.102 / 58. 13.102
  libavformat    58. 10.100 / 58. 10.100
  libavdevice    58.  2.100 / 58.  2.100
  libavfilter     7. 12.100 /  7. 12.100
  libswscale      5.  0.102 /  5.  0.102
  libswresample   3.  0.101 /  3.  0.101
  libpostproc    55.  0.100 / 55.  0.100
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'gopro.mp4':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf58.10.100
  Duration: 00:00:05.01, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30089 kb/s
    Stream #0:0(eng): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661),
yuvj420p(pc, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 30036 kb/s, 50 fps,
50 tbr, 90k tbn, 100 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
    Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: aac (LC) (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 48000 Hz,
stereo, fltp, 127 kb/s (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : SoundHandler
Unknown encoder 'prores-aw'



--------------------------------------------
$ ffmpeg-git -i gopro.mp4 -an -c:v prores-ks protest.mov
--------------------------------------------

ffmpeg version N-90260-g840f6eb Copyright (c) 2000-2018 the FFmpeg
developers
  built with gcc 5.4.0 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.5) 20160609
  configuration: --prefix=/usr/local --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree
--enable-version3 --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-avfilter
--enable-pthreads --enable-bzlib --enable-zlib --enable-decoder=png
--enable-encoder=png --samples=../fate-suite --enable-libfreetype
--enable-libopenjpeg --disable-decoder=jpeg2000 --enable-libvpx
--enable-libvorbis --enable-libx264
  libavutil      56.  8.100 / 56.  8.100
  libavcodec     58. 13.102 / 58. 13.102
  libavformat    58. 10.100 / 58. 10.100
  libavdevice    58.  2.100 / 58.  2.100
  libavfilter     7. 12.100 /  7. 12.100
  libswscale      5.  0.102 /  5.  0.102
  libswresample   3.  0.101 /  3.  0.101
  libpostproc    55.  0.100 / 55.  0.100
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'gopro.mp4':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf58.10.100
  Duration: 00:00:05.01, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30089 kb/s
    Stream #0:0(eng): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661),
yuvj420p(pc, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 30036 kb/s, 50 fps,
50 tbr, 90k tbn, 100 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
    Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: aac (LC) (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 48000 Hz,
stereo, fltp, 127 kb/s (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : SoundHandler
Unknown encoder 'prores-ks'



--------------------------------------------
$ ffmpeg-git -i gopro.mp4 -an -c:v prores protest.mov
--------------------------------------------

ffmpeg version N-90260-g840f6eb Copyright (c) 2000-2018 the FFmpeg
developers
  built with gcc 5.4.0 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.5) 20160609
  configuration: --prefix=/usr/local --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree
--enable-version3 --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-avfilter
--enable-pthreads --enable-bzlib --enable-zlib --enable-decoder=png
--enable-encoder=png --samples=../fate-suite --enable-libfreetype
--enable-libopenjpeg --disable-decoder=jpeg2000 --enable-libvpx
--enable-libvorbis --enable-libx264
  libavutil      56.  8.100 / 56.  8.100
  libavcodec     58. 13.102 / 58. 13.102
  libavformat    58. 10.100 / 58. 10.100
  libavdevice    58.  2.100 / 58.  2.100
  libavfilter     7. 12.100 /  7. 12.100
  libswscale      5.  0.102 /  5.  0.102
  libswresample   3.  0.101 /  3.  0.101
  libpostproc    55.  0.100 / 55.  0.100
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'gopro.mp4':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf58.10.100
  Duration: 00:00:05.01, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30089 kb/s
    Stream #0:0(eng): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661),
yuvj420p(pc, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 30036 kb/s, 50 fps,
50 tbr, 90k tbn, 100 tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
    Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: aac (LC) (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 48000 Hz,
stereo, fltp, 127 kb/s (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : SoundHandler
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (h264 (native) -> prores (native))
Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
[swscaler @ 0x40807c0] deprecated pixel format used, make sure you did
set range correctly
[prores @ 0x44ce280] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44d3240] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44d8680] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44ddbc0] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44e3080] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44e8540] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44eda00] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x44f2ec0] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
[prores @ 0x37fee40] encoding with ProRes standard (apcn) profile
Output #0, mov, to 'protest.mov':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : isom
    minor_version   : 512
    compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
    encoder         : Lavf58.10.100
    Stream #0:0(eng): Video: prores (apcn / 0x6E637061), yuv422p10le,
1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 50 fps, 12800 tbn, 50
tbc (default)
    Metadata:
      handler_name    : VideoHandler
      encoder         : Lavc58.13.102 prores
frame=  250 fps= 49 q=-0.0 Lsize=  211180kB time=00:00:04.98
bitrate=347381.2kbits/s speed=0.981x   
video:211177kB audio:0kB subtitle:0kB other streams:0kB global
headers:0kB muxing overhead: 0.001266%






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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
2018-03-11 9:33 GMT+01:00 Peter B. <[hidden email]>:

> When I looked at the documentation [1], there are 2 encoders mentioned:
>   * prores-aw
>   * prores-ks
>
> It says to use "-vcodec" to choose which one (btw: I also tried "-c:v"):
> I get: "Unknown encoder" for both

For the option, you have to replace "-" with "_":
-vcodec prores_aw
-vcodec prores_ks

Carl Eugen
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Peter B.
On 2018-03-11 10:29, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:

> 2018-03-11 9:33 GMT+01:00 Peter B. <[hidden email]>:
>
>> When I looked at the documentation [1], there are 2 encoders mentioned:
>>   * prores-aw
>>   * prores-ks
>>
>> It says to use "-vcodec" to choose which one (btw: I also tried "-c:v"):
>> I get: "Unknown encoder" for both
> For the option, you have to replace "-" with "_":
> -vcodec prores_aw
> -vcodec prores_ks

Thanks Carl :)
Underscore does the trick!

Is "-" used on purpose in the docs, or a typo?


Peter
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Carl Eugen Hoyos-2
2018-03-11 11:34 GMT+01:00 Peter B. <[hidden email]>:

> On 2018-03-11 10:29, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
>> 2018-03-11 9:33 GMT+01:00 Peter B. <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> When I looked at the documentation [1], there are 2 encoders mentioned:
>>>   * prores-aw
>>>   * prores-ks
>>>
>>> It says to use "-vcodec" to choose which one (btw: I also tried "-c:v"):
>>> I get: "Unknown encoder" for both
>> For the option, you have to replace "-" with "_":
>> -vcodec prores_aw
>> -vcodec prores_ks
>
> Thanks Carl :)
> Underscore does the trick!
>
> Is "-" used on purpose in the docs, or a typo?

I don't know.

Did you find a sample file with changing codecs?

Carl Eugen
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Phil Rhodes-3
In reply to this post by Peter B.
I'm not sure what the practical difference is between the _aw and _ks encoders is, and I'm not sure it's documented anywhere. Still, if it helps, I've been using the _ks version for some time to produce deliverables and not had any problems.
P

      From: Peter B. <[hidden email]>
 To: FFmpeg user questions <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Sunday, 11 March 2018, 10:34
 Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-user] ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs
   
On 2018-03-11 10:29, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:

> 2018-03-11 9:33 GMT+01:00 Peter B. <[hidden email]>:
>
>> When I looked at the documentation [1], there are 2 encoders mentioned:
>>  * prores-aw
>>  * prores-ks
>>
>> It says to use "-vcodec" to choose which one (btw: I also tried "-c:v"):
>> I get: "Unknown encoder" for both
> For the option, you have to replace "-" with "_":
> -vcodec prores_aw
> -vcodec prores_ks

Thanks Carl :)
Underscore does the trick!

Is "-" used on purpose in the docs, or a typo?


Peter
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Erik Dobberkau
2018-03-11 11:50 GMT+01:00 Phil Rhodes <
[hidden email]>:

> I'm not sure what the practical difference is between the _aw and _ks
> encoders is, and I'm not sure it's documented anywhere. Still, if it helps,
> I've been using the _ks version for some time to produce deliverables and
> not had any problems.
> P
>

See
https://video.stackexchange.com/questions/20555/what-are-the-differences-between-the-three-bundled-ffmpeg-prores-encoders
It's a bit outdated but still good for background info.
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Gonzalo Garramuño-2


El 11/03/18 a las 08:40, Erik Dobberkau escribió:
> See
> https://video.stackexchange.com/questions/20555/what-are-the-differences-between-the-three-bundled-ffmpeg-prores-encoders
> It's a bit outdated but still good for background info.

Does anyone have any hints on saving the alpha channel?  I have tried
encoding an exr with alpha channel into a mov file with the following
command:

$ ffmpeg -i bunny.%04d.exr -c:v prores_ks -profile:v 4444 -pix_fmt
yuva444p10le bunny.mov

and I get a mov file but without an alpha channel.  ffprobe reports:

Stream #0:0(eng): Video: prores (ap4h / 0x68347061),
yuva444p10le(progressive), 1280x720, 61876 kb/s, SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9, 25
fps, 25 tbr, 12800 tbn, 12800 tbc (default)

--
Gonzalo Garramuño

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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Paul B Mahol
On 3/11/18, Gonzalo Garramuno <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> El 11/03/18 a las 08:40, Erik Dobberkau escribio:
>> See
>> https://video.stackexchange.com/questions/20555/what-are-the-differences-between-the-three-bundled-ffmpeg-prores-encoders
>> It's a bit outdated but still good for background info.
>
> Does anyone have any hints on saving the alpha channel?  I have tried
> encoding an exr with alpha channel into a mov file with the following
> command:
>
> $ ffmpeg -i bunny.%04d.exr -c:v prores_ks -profile:v 4444 -pix_fmt
> yuva444p10le bunny.mov
>
> and I get a mov file but without an alpha channel.  ffprobe reports:
>
> Stream #0:0(eng): Video: prores (ap4h / 0x68347061),
> yuva444p10le(progressive), 1280x720, 61876 kb/s, SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9, 25
> fps, 25 tbr, 12800 tbn, 12800 tbc (default)

What you use to play it?
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Gyan Doshi
In reply to this post by Gonzalo Garramuño-2


On 3/11/2018 6:01 PM, Gonzalo Garramuño wrote:
>
> and I get a mov file but without an alpha channel.  ffprobe reports:
>
> Stream #0:0(eng): Video: prores (ap4h / 0x68347061),
> yuva444p10le(progressive), 1280x720, 61876 kb/s, SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9, 25
> fps, 25 tbr, 12800 tbn, 12800 tbc (default)


'yuva444p10le' -> the 'a' in 'yuva' represents alpha.

Check with

     ffmpeg -i bunny.mov -lavfi
color=s=hd720:c=pink[bg];[bg][0]overlay=shortest=1" test.mov

In test.mov, do you see pink in place of the transparent parts of bunny.mov?

Regards,
Gyan
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Moritz Barsnick
In reply to this post by Peter B.
On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 09:33:29 +0100, Peter B. wrote:

> 2) Docs say "profile/quantmat" is "integer", but only list strings:
> ========================================
>
> [quote]
> profile integer
>     Select the ProRes profile to encode
>
>     ‘proxy’
>     ‘lt’
>     ‘standard’
>     ‘hq’
>     ‘4444’
>     ‘4444xq’

You can use the strings instead of numbers. I believe it used to be
*only* integers, nowadays strings mostly also map to the same values.
The docs could list the integers, but if they don't, I don't think it
matters. But I do understand your confusion.

You can (sometimes) see the mapping if you use "ffmpeg -h", e.g.

$ ffmpeg -h encoder=prores_ks
[...]
  -profile           <int>        E..V.... (from -1 to 5) (default auto)
     auto                         E..V....
     proxy                        E..V....
     lt                           E..V....
     standard                     E..V....
     hq                           E..V....
     4444                         E..V....
     4444xq                       E..V....

Those seven values map to -1 .. 5, in case you do want to use digits. I
don't see a reason for doing that though.

Moritz
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Peter B.
On 2018-03-12 00:50, Moritz Barsnick wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 09:33:29 +0100, Peter B. wrote:
>
>> 2) Docs say "profile/quantmat" is "integer", but only list strings:
>> ========================================
> You can use the strings instead of numbers. I believe it used to be
> *only* integers, nowadays strings mostly also map to the same values.
> The docs could list the integers, but if they don't, I don't think it
> matters. But I do understand your confusion.

Thanks!
My confusion was *before* Carl's answer :)
I assumed that strings will be mapped to integers, but trying any
profile string (I found) with prores (=prores_aw?) resulted in this:

[prores @ 0x28b2fc0] [Eval @ 0x7ffc00f9e2c0] Undefined constant or
missing '(' in 'lt'
[prores @ 0x28b2fc0] Unable to parse option value "lt"
[prores @ 0x28b2fc0] Error setting option profile to value lt.

But now I know:

  * -c:v prores_ks: uses the documented profile strings
  * -c:v prores_aw (=prores): seems to work only with integers (not in
the documentation/nor help)


btw: Trying an invalid profile number with prores_aw, gives some
"documentation":

[prores_aw @ 0x36fdc40] unknown profile -1, use [0 - apco, 1 - apcs, 2 -
apcn (default), 3 - apch]

Where "apco, apcs, apcn, apch" are explained in:
https://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Apple_ProRes


> You can (sometimes) see the mapping if you use "ffmpeg -h", e.g.
> $ ffmpeg -h encoder=prores_ks

Thanks again! :)

btw: for "encoder=prores" or "encoder=prores_aw", this doesn't provide
much information:

Encoder prores_aw [Apple ProRes]:
    General capabilities: threads
    Threading capabilities: frame
    Supported pixel formats: yuv422p10le


> Those seven values map to -1 .. 5, in case you do want to use digits. I
> don't see a reason for doing that though.

Completely agree! Strings are way better (to remember and use).
They just don't work for the default encoder :(


Again: Thanks for clearing things up!
Pb

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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Moritz Barsnick
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 08:24:26 +0100, Peter B. wrote:
> But now I know:
>
>   * -c:v prores_ks: uses the documented profile strings
>   * -c:v prores_aw (=prores): seems to work only with integers (not in the documentation/nor help)

Indeed.

> [prores_aw @ 0x36fdc40] unknown profile -1, use [0 - apco, 1 - apcs, 2 -
> apcn (default), 3 - apch]

Ah, interesting, I didn't actually *try* the encoder.

> btw: for "encoder=prores" or "encoder=prores_aw", this doesn't provide
> much information:
>
> Encoder prores_aw [Apple ProRes]:
>     General capabilities: threads
>     Threading capabilities: frame
>     Supported pixel formats: yuv422p10le

Ah, that's interesting. That's due to the fact that prores_ks chose to
implement their own encoder-specific options for profile, while
prores_aw uses the value from ffmpeg's global option. (Confusing? A
bit, but shouldn't be to the user.)

Consequently, at least the valid profiles should be documented.
Furthermore, a proposal to implement prores_aw's profiles so that they
a) accepts strings, and b) document themselves automatically would be
nice. (Should be easy to implement, not sure if it would be accepted. I
would do it, but don't have the time today. ;-))

Cheers,
Moritz
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Paul B Mahol
On 3/12/18, Moritz Barsnick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 08:24:26 +0100, Peter B. wrote:
>> But now I know:
>>
>>   * -c:v prores_ks: uses the documented profile strings
>>   * -c:v prores_aw (=prores): seems to work only with integers (not in the
>> documentation/nor help)
>
> Indeed.
>
>> [prores_aw @ 0x36fdc40] unknown profile -1, use [0 - apco, 1 - apcs, 2 -
>> apcn (default), 3 - apch]
>
> Ah, interesting, I didn't actually *try* the encoder.
>
>> btw: for "encoder=prores" or "encoder=prores_aw", this doesn't provide
>> much information:
>>
>> Encoder prores_aw [Apple ProRes]:
>>     General capabilities: threads
>>     Threading capabilities: frame
>>     Supported pixel formats: yuv422p10le
>
> Ah, that's interesting. That's due to the fact that prores_ks chose to
> implement their own encoder-specific options for profile, while
> prores_aw uses the value from ffmpeg's global option. (Confusing? A
> bit, but shouldn't be to the user.)
>
> Consequently, at least the valid profiles should be documented.
> Furthermore, a proposal to implement prores_aw's profiles so that they
> a) accepts strings, and b) document themselves automatically would be
> nice. (Should be easy to implement, not sure if it would be accepted. I
> would do it, but don't have the time today. ;-))

prores_aw gonna be removed.
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Peter B.
On 2018-03-12 11:50, Paul B Mahol wrote:
> prores_aw gonna be removed.

Interesting.

Will the alias "-c:v prores" then point to "prores_ks"?


Thanks,
Pb
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Re: ProRes encoding: Question about FFmpeg docs

Moritz Barsnick
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 12:32:09 +0100, Peter B. wrote:
> On 2018-03-12 11:50, Paul B Mahol wrote:
> > prores_aw gonna be removed.
>
> Interesting.
>
> Will the alias "-c:v prores" then point to "prores_ks"?

I'm quite sure.

BTW, there was a previous recent propasal to move the alias to _ks, but
it apparently never went through:

https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-June/212885.html

Moritz
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